Our First Post-Separation Date (With Each Other)

25 Oct

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We had our first “date” since the separation, and it was a disaster.  I have to start by saying that I looked hot. Seriously. I have battled with poor self-esteem, and even I knew I was smoking.  He didn’t say a word.  Nothing.

He ordered water and refused to eat.  He didn’t start an argument, he wasn’t sulky, and he didn’t act angry, but he also wasn’t engaging or interesting.  I think he tried to make small talk. He asked what I had been doing, told me he was doing “nothing” and shared that he has been writing and working his book.  He did say he wants me to read some of what he has written because he can’t process and articulate correctly in person.

I think he was unsure what to talk about.  Mostly we just chatted.  He asked about my work, then briefly listened.  He bitched about his work extensively.  He complained about the apartment he is renting – how it feels like a jail, how he has to lay on the bed to watch TV, how he wishes he knew earlier that his brother was out of town so he could be staying at his place, etc.  He said more than once how tired he is and how he falls asleep at 8 most nights.  He talked about HBO and two new female co-workers.

Overall I got too much of a “poor me” vibe and not enough “man of action.” Of course no STD or psychological testing was mentioned.  He was full of excuses about looking for a new job even though this one is apparently awful and pays shit (basically his assessment).  He did say he feels he is accomplishing something with his therapy to uncover his reasons for lying.  That was encouraging.  I shared some of my little personal growth moments from the last week.

Finally, near the end of our time together, after I returned from the bathroom and caught two guys checking me out, I mentioned something about his lack of notice/caring/whatever of me. I did it in a very I-know-I’m-hot-so-I-don’t-even-care-that-you-don’t kind of way, with an evil smirk on my face. He said he was just thinking how good I look, but he didn’t want me to think he was being disingenuous or trying to weasel his way back in with me. He said he was completely overthinking things.

The whole lackluster event ended at 8:30, only an hour and a half after it started, without us touching each other once. He didn’t try to hold my hand, hug me, or even really get close at all. He never ate. I paid my bill. He didn’t even walk me to my car.  If this was a first date I would not be going on a second one.

However, I know that this WASN’T a first date.  We have a lot of baggage trying to tag along.  I need to cut myself and him a little slack.  Hopefully they will get better.  For now, it’s a start.  I know my expectations were too high. It has only been 2 weeks since our separation. Change is gradual and takes time. That’s why we planned to separate for 3 months.  I have to realize things are messy and complicated right now. I need to let go of my fairy-tale, romantic-movie fantasies. I can’t change him or this night, so I have to work on changing me.  I will use this as an opportunity to make myself stronger and healthier.

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35 Responses to “Our First Post-Separation Date (With Each Other)”

  1. Samantha Baker October 29, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    And if you’ve been reading her blog long term, you can see where she’s given him a LOT of grace and understanding.

  2. Samantha Baker October 29, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    Also, regardless of addiction or not, we do not have to ever accept lying if we don’t feel that we can. That’s up to each individual person as to what they can and can’t accept. Beautiful feels she can’t accept his continued lies at the moment. She shouldn’t be made to feel that she should have to regardless if he’s an addict or not. She has a boundary, she’s enforcing it.

  3. Samantha Baker October 29, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    I have to respectfully disagree Castimonia. Betrayed spouses NEED to feel safe in their relationships. There is only so much lying that we can take. If we don’t make a bottom line and stick to it (whatever that may be, how many chances we’re willing to give) then we’re enabling the WS/Addict to continue with their behavior if there are no consequences for their actions.

    I was re-reading a post of mine today where you commented that an Addict/WS needed to hit their bottom. Maybe Mr. Mess hadn’t hit his yet (obviously) and THIS might be that bottom that he needs. Why should Beautiful continue to live in a world of unsafety while he tries to figure out if he wants to change and recover or not? It’s not realistic to put the betrayed spouse through continued hell over and over while the addict/WS hems and haws about a decision to get healthy or not.

    The addict/WS has no earthly idea what a betrayed spouse goes through. Not that you can’t try to be empathetic, but you can never understand. You just can’t. But the physical and emotional toll that it takes on us eventually can break us down to the point that we just can’t do it anymore. The anxiety, the depression, our OWN feelings of abandonment and rejection. We can’t just ignore that while they figure out their problems. It’s not fair for us to allow them to continually abuse us (yes, abuse, emotional/mental abuse is what it is) while they figure it out. We are allowed to have a bottom line and to do whatever it takes to feel safe.

    The latest disclosure my own husband made two weeks ago has made me physically sick at times in addition to emotionally. He lied and lied and lied. I get it, addicts/WS lie. Clearly I get that. But it’s unrealistic to expect me as his spouse to just put up with it and ride it out. I can decide at anytime it’s my deal breaker, or that I need a time out so *I* can get emotionally healthy. His lying has been a detriment to my health.

    It’s not about shaming the addict/WS at all. It’s about keeping myself sane/healthy. I can’t take on his recovery. It’s not my responsibility. I can only take control of my own recovery. Separating in order to work on our own issues is not shaming.

    And FWIW Beautiful posted a picture of her outfit, it’s so not provocative.

  4. Jorge@castimonia.org October 29, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    Fear can drive an addict into isolation. It is only my opinion that the out of house separation was not a good idea. To separate because you cannot control your codependency (as you stated in your response to me before) is not a good reason. Unless your husband is threatening, abusive, or still acting out in bottom line behaviors, out of house separation is not necessary, it only brings more trauma for both you and the addict. Lying, is not a reason for out-of-house separation. In-house separation is what is needed for both of you, and you both have to understand proper boundaries. Maybe I misread your earlier posts, I could be mistaken.

    I believe your husband is pissed off, I know I would be. And to flaunt your physical sexuality, something he can’t have, in front of him, and then in front of other men is likely to trigger major abandonment issues in your husband. Keep in mind, that whatever he chooses to do and however he chooses to react, is HIS choice, not yours. Just because he is triggered does not mean he has to act out over it.

    You cannot expect a miracle change over night. It probably took 20 to 30 years for your husband to become the lying addict he is, it’s going to take more than a year or two for him to change. Change comes on God’s time, not ours. Yes, he has to want it, but you should also be understanding and give him grace when he needs it. I understand the lying is a big issue with you, it is for all spouses. I have counseled spouses and the biggest problem they have with their husbands is the lying. They can take the truth of a slip or relapse, they can’t deal with the lying. The lying was formed over decades of abuse beginning with your husband’s childhood. It will take time, and a proper recovery program to get him to practice rigorous honesty. It can be done, but it will definitely take time.

    I would recommend that both of you seek a 3-day couple’s intensive (with polygraph) and start over from the beginning. It is worth the money and basically 6 months worth of couple’s therapy. The polygraph helps keep the addict honest, and you both will learn proper communication skills so as to not shame the addict and not trigger the spouse.

    Good luck!

    • beautifulmess7 October 29, 2012 at 10:51 am #

      The decision to separate was made by both of us with the advice of our counselor. When we made our boundary agreement it was clear that major or long term lying was a violation with the clear consequence of living separately. He even said in our MC two weeks ago that he needs to be alone to focus on him and do some intensive work. I also need to be safe, and his constant lying is not healthy for me to be dealing with in my home.

      I understand that you are addict and a liar so you may not want to admit that lying IS a bottom line, inner circle behavior and a huge violation of the spouse. I also want to add that the “decades of abuse” you mention from his childhood that caused this lying is new to me… Have you somehow found out about something directly from my husband that he has never mentioned to me? Last time we talked about it (2 days ago) he was still trying to identify when that became his pattern.

      Regardless of your feelings on the subject, lying is unacceptable in my marriage. Maybe your wife is okay with perpetual lie detector tests for the rest of your life together as her only means of trusting you. I am not willing to accept that. Maybe that means this marriage will never work. It’s very possible. However, I refuse to apologize for needing honesty in my intimate relationships.

    • beautifulmess7 October 29, 2012 at 11:12 am #

      Also, his lie was related to his sexual acting out. He lied for 2 weeks about STD testing, putting my physical health at risk in addition to the emotional and mental turmoil. I then discovered that was part of an extensive 7 month or longer lie involving his health insurance. That is why lying is a bottom line behavior… It leads to more and more lies and opens the door for further acting out and worse and worse problems. I am not going to depend on a lie detector for my physical and mental protection, not will I wait to contract some STD or other disease before I take action to protect myself.

      Furthermore, if taking care of myself and my appearance is “flaunting my physical sexuality” then I guess I’m always guilty of that. It’s not like I was dresses up in some hooker outfit. I was wearing a simple blue dress with a boat neckline that goes to my knees and dark tights. It is what I had worn to the office and is in no way sexually exposed or provocative. I’m not going to walk around in baggy sweats without makeup. I guess it’s too much to ask for him to simply say I look nice. I have made a note of that and will no longer have that expectation.

      Finally, I do not feel any “trauma” from this separation. In fact, I feel peace of mind and security that I haven’t felt in a while. The only trauma in my life is the trauma of being lied to.

      • Castimonia October 30, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

        I hope you understand the difference between a bottom line behavior and inner circle behavior. Lying to my wife is inner circle behavior, however, it does not constitute being kicked out of the house. In house separation works just as well. Thankfully, I DON’T lie to my wife, regardless of a polygraph. The polygraph is for the ADDICT, not the spouse to help him practice rigorous honesty.

        As for the “lie-o-matic” comment, I don’t know your husband personally, but I can assure you that somewhere in his childhood he learned to lie, whether it was condemning parent, older sibling, teacher, or other authority figure that fed him negative consequences for telling the truth or trying to be honest. When these people that hold “power” over us condemn us for telling the truth, we learn to lie, and we lie about EVERYTHING. I remember my wife asking me early on in recovery if I stirred the beans and I quickly said yes, knowning all too well that I did not and I had lied. I quickly came clean with the lie and my wife was happy that I was being honest. But here’s the key, this was after the 3-day intensive and after we both learned how to communicate one another without being condemning or having fear of condemnation. If I lie, then it is a sign of unhealthiness and I need to do some major recovery work, but it is not equivalent to me viewing pornography and masturbating for hours, having sex outside of the marriage, or brining affair partners over to the house.

        I honestly believe that every husband has lied to their wife at some point of the marriage, little or big, sex addict or not. It’s just that sex addicts learn how not to lie and be honest, because if we are not honest, we are not sober.

        Now I must have missed something early one, because if you both agreed to the out of house seperation and it was part of your marriage contract, then that is that. But I did not see that in an earlier post, for that I apologize.

        And I will end with this (should have done it before). Take what you like and leave the rest.

        • beautifulmess7 October 30, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

          Yes, long-term lying or major lies that continue to be a problem are in our boundary agreement as cause for an out of home separation and possibly divorce. Major lying IS a bottom-line behavior in my home. In fact, it is the first item on the list.

          To me, a large, long-term lie that affects my health is far, far worse than if he had masturbated to porn for a few hours. I also think it is much more detrimental to our marriage and recovery. It also says in our boundary agreement that “lies are worse than almost anything we could ever do to each other.” Obviously, there is a distinction between a “stirring the beans” lie and an “I got tested for STDs and have health insurance” 9-month lie.

        • beautifulmess7 November 11, 2012 at 10:29 pm #

          I saw you posted an article about lying. You said, “sometimes a lie is the first and only response an addict can give.” That is actually not what the article says at all. It doesn’t say it is the ONLY response an addict can give. He describes the urge and process very well when he says, “The Lie-O-Matic does NOT prevent the person from being aware that she or he is lying… the content of the lie requires that the person tune into the facts of the situation and use their imagination. That is certainly a conscious process.”

          In fact, he goes on to say that it takes longer to make up a lie than it would to tell the truth, which takes simple effort – “Lying takes more time than does telling the truth. IT IS A FAIRLY SIMPLE THING to develop a mindful oversight of the fabrication system so that rational, fact-based, mature decisions can replace those mandated by the Lie-O-Matic.”

          So if my husband refuses to take simple steps to stop a childish process, that is on him 100%. Understanding it also doesn’t protect me from it. It doesn’t make it okay. Just because it’s hard sometimes not to lie doesn’t mean it is something I have to accept or live with. I am not calling him a “bad person” because he lies so constantly. But I am saying he is not a safe person or a reliable person or someone who is trustworthy. Until he is, I can’t have him as a major part of my day-to-day life.

  5. workspousestory October 29, 2012 at 5:24 am #

    I think it was actually quite positive too… bear in mind he’s probably still in shock, and the date didn’t end with either of you shouting or walking out, so I’d say it’s a quiet success 😉

    • beautifulmess7 October 29, 2012 at 5:32 am #

      I think you’re right. As sad as it is, that IS progress for us right now.

  6. Ariella October 28, 2012 at 9:35 pm #

    I really envy you! I could NEVER do this. I would be in a complete panic and worry 24/7 if John was with another woman. I think that is why I am so quick to allow him to stay home after he cheat, because I fear! This is a HUGE step for you!

    Im sure you did look hot and maybe he didn’t like that. Maybe he expected you to be miserable because he was not there. I mean he is a man and men love to be “needed.” I don’t know your husband, but I know John and John would not like that I was confident and wouldn’t allow my life to stop any longer.

    Do you think that after this you are going to even want him anymore? I hate to say that and forgive me if I am completely off here, but. . .I dont know. You have been very different and very strong lately. Just something I noticed. . .

    • beautifulmess7 October 28, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

      I will only want him back if he makes a real, significant change. I am different. In therapy yesterday we discussed the fact that the thing that has changed the most in this equation is me. He has always lied to me. I have just allowed him to push my boundaries further and further, I have chosen to believe in his “higher potential,” I have accepted promises that I had no reason to believe he would keep. Not any more. Only actions matter at this point, not words.

      Honestly, I have come to the point that if he does cheat on me during this separation then at least my decision will be that much easier. I want someone who I can trust like I’m right beside them, even when I’m 3,000 miles away. If he cheats on me while we are separated to work on saving our marriage, then I will know for sure that he doesn’t ultimately want that. I will KNOW that he is the chicken and I am the pig (I wrote about that analogy in an earlier post… I got it from Grey’s Anatomy).

      That is where I am. Sure, I still have fears. I desperately want him to get his act together so that we can be together. I don’t want to be divorced. I don’t want him to fail – for his sake as much as for mine. But I am prepared for anything. Because the one thing I DO know for sure is that my sanity, my security, my peace of mind, my future mean more to me than my fears.

      • Ariella October 28, 2012 at 10:31 pm #

        Well, you may not really care what I think but I am VERY proud of you. You are an inspiration to all of us!
        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

        • beautifulmess7 October 30, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

          Thank you. Of course I care what you think. 🙂

  7. Anonymous October 27, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    Hi Beautiful, I’m a long time listener, first time caller. (Well, long time reader, first time writer.) I’m sorry you have to deal with all of this. I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you to go through. I’m a man, and when I found out my ex-wife was cheating on me, well, that’s why she became my ex-wife. So, I may not be in the best position to comment on this, but I thought I’d throw in my $0.02.

    I can completely understand why your husband acted the way he did. You saw the other night as a date, a time for him to prove himself to you. My guess is he saw it as the complete opposite of a date. For a guy, a date is a chance to win a woman’s affection and, since he doesn’t have her yet, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. What your husband went through the other night was the opposite: he has you already, so he’s in a position to lose everything, to lose you. Now, I understand that might not make complete sense to you; I’m just trying to bring a man’s perspective to this. My point is, he’s probably trying to play it safe in an effort not to make a sensitive situation worse by doing something unintentionally offensive.

    Have you ever heard of the book _Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus_ by Dr. John Gray? Men tend to like it, women hate it. Anyway, in the book Dr. Gray points out that, in general, in difficult situations, men tend to retreat into themselves in an effort to figure things out, and come out again when they have a plan to deal with things. This is opposite from women, who tend to want to talk through difficulties. It seems to me that your husband is in his withdrawal phase.

    And, it wouldn’t surprise me if he is in a withdrawal phase, since this situation is probably the second worse thing he can imagine, with only divorce being worse. He may be in a tailspin right now, having difficulty in getting his bearings. It’s exhausting getting set up in a new place to live–everything’s different: different surroundings when he wakes up in the morning; different route to work; different place to unwind after work; different bed to try to get comfortable in at night. Moving is one of the more stressful things people have to deal with, up there with divorce, losing a job, and the death of a family member.

    I also agree with your assessment of the night, and the things others have said. His “poor me” attitude certainly is a cause for concern. And his continued lack of STD testing is inexcusable (he’s in deep denial about something there, and whatever it is, it needs to be dealt with). I also suspect that, yes, he’s feeling guilty, exposed, and vulnerable. It also makes sense to me that he’s not sure how to show you his attraction to you in a way that doesn’t make you think of the way he interacted with the other women. He’s not sure how to come across as sincere.

    I feel I should also mention that I have quite a bit of respect for Mr. Mess. He’s posted on this blog from his point of view (which takes a great deal of humility and strength), he’s in therapy (which takes strength and resolve). In general, I get the impression that Mr. Mess is a flawed man of character. But, then again, I’m not in a relationship with him.

    Again, I’m sorry you have to go through all of this. I hope things work out for you sooner rather than later.

    Eric

    • beautifulmess7 October 27, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

      Thank you for your insightful comment, Eric. I think you are 100% right-on, and I hadn’t thought of things from the perspective of him trying not to lose something he feels he has already. In his position I would feel like I needed to be back in the initial phase of having to prove myself and win him back. I would be pulling out all the stops.

      That is another way that men and women are different, I guess. I always felt like even though I have the job (this marriage) I need to consistently do more and better in order to keep it. Like my boss is fond of saying, what have you done for me lately? I am constantly trying to make sure I have an answer to that at work and at home. I haven’t fucked up anything lately also has never felt like an acceptable answer. I think he feels that once he has the job he doesn’t have to prove himself anymore, he just has to avoid doing something bad enough to get fired. That has just never been my mentality.

      Realizing my mentality is not his has been a big obstacle that I have to face constantly. I appreciate every opportunity I have to challenge that notion of mine and learn more about his thinking. Understanding each other is a huge part of a relationship.

      I also believe the things you said about Mr. Mess are true. He is a man of character, and he has wonderful qualities. That is why I married him, after all. He is trying, he is working on himself. However, the proof will be in whether or not he follows through. I am withholding any judgments or assumptions about that. We have at least 3 months to work on ourselves before we have to consider that.

      I really appreciate that you took the time to reply. I am glad to have your readership and your $.02.

  8. Stacia October 27, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    Thinking of you!! I just wrote you a chapter from my blog post yesterday!

    Have a great weekend and do something awesome for yourself! We are preparing for hurricane Sandy this weekend, BLAH!!! Wine time tonite!!

    • beautifulmess7 October 27, 2012 at 11:21 am #

      So am I. I have officially dubbed Sandy the Frankenstorm.

      • Stacia October 27, 2012 at 11:23 am #

        PA has a state of emergency, and here I sit. My priorities are a bit screwed up today. Stay safe!!

  9. Not Over It October 26, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    Hi Beautiful – this all sounds so familiar. I complain often on my blog about how my husband is not romantic and does little to reassure me that he loves me, short of having sex all the time. Doesn’t do much for feeling like the relationship has a chance…

    I remember a particular night that the same thing happened to me in a restaurant… I know I looked good and turned some heads. My husband’s uncle said I was “enchanting.” My husband? He said nothing. As we walked to our car afterwards I said, “Well, at least some people know how to make a woman feel good about how she looks.” He didn’t respond. Later on in therapy, he said that anything he said would sound like something he had told his OW and that I would probably get triggered or mad or something. Sadly, he was probably right, especially back then. It was about 5 months after Dday.

    He is still like that today, but I am in a better place and so is he. He still is not romantic, but I see that he looks for ways to say things that won’t sound like all the mush in their emails. He sent me a love quote last week: “Grow old with me. The best is yet to come.” Not what I would call really romantic, but it comes pretty close…

    All that to say that you are right. Give it some time and be gentle. He needed to go through this, but he is hurting to know that you really asked him to leave. I don’t think it sounds codependent to be triggered by HBO and female co-workers. That’s just natural after what you’ve been through. Remember to tell him that you love him… with the necessary disclaimers… Lol.

    Wishing you grace and peace through your weekend…

    Love & prayers,
    DJ

  10. Samantha Baker October 26, 2012 at 8:23 am #

    P.S. I’m positive you looked hot!! *eye wiggle*

  11. Samantha Baker October 26, 2012 at 8:22 am #

    I’m like you, I have high expectations, however, I never really tell Mr. Baker what my expectations are. So I put this proverbial bar up there, expect him to reach it, but i never tell him where that bar is. (Not saying you do that, but just that’s what I do with my expectations). I feel like “He should KNOW what I want. It’s common sense!!!” when the reality is, it may be common sense for ME, but not so for him.

    So I’ve been trying to verbalize what I’d like from him a lot more lately and in turn, he’s been stepping up.

    I know you’ve done that though, and Mr. Mess hasn’t been able to step up, hence the separation. I really hope that he can dig deep and get to learn more about himself, stretch his way of thinking and understanding and fight for you the way you need.

    Hopefully next week will be less awkward. Baby steps.

    • beautifulmess7 October 26, 2012 at 8:33 am #

      I think you are mostly right about the expectations thing. Even the ones I have fully verbalized I did with the assumption that he was capable of emotional maturity that may not be within his reach right now. He has dug himself into this hole, and now he doesn’t know how to get out. He has to figure it out and overcome his fears and flaws or decide he wants to stay down there. However, I can’t expect him to climb out in only a few days because it took him a long time to get down that far.

      • Samantha Baker October 26, 2012 at 9:10 am #

        You would be correct. And also, don’t discount, he’s still in the self shock mode that you actually followed through. Hence the, my apt sucks, my jobs sucks, my life sucks, I have nothing…But, those are the consequences to his actions and HE has to figure out if he wants to overcome that…or not. You can’t do that for him.

        • beautifulmess7 October 26, 2012 at 9:21 am #

          I got a really, really insightful response on the forum from a member. She said:

          “i’m reasonably sure he did notice,if he had eyes in his head…you say he didn’t eat,sounds like something was killing his his appetite,guilt?feelings of rejection?(from being out of the house) i would ask him.maybe tell him that the thing you wanted to hear is how he thought you looked lovely,and how he had taken the next step.if i were to guess,he’s feeling “filthy” that self loathing that drove his behaviour is now at it’s worst because he’s bust open and now that you know he feels exposed and even uglier…it may take time for him to cope with feeling that way ,i think it’s good,they should feel the yuck of their behaviour,i think it’s a step to feel self loathing for a thing done wrong,it is the consience speaking and they have listened.At least he’s not in the high phase,still feeling the glow of fantasy .The veil has now fallen down for him.It’s hard reality now…perhaps time for him to process where he is…he is probably doing a lot of self evaluation right about now and it can’t be fun to look at yourself and realise how low you have sank…my guess is romance is not on his mind too much…you are wanting to save your love and he is only now realising who he has become…”

          I know I was being selfish last night. I can empathize with the rough place he is in mentally and emotionally. I know I was expecting too much… I just wanted to feel like I could hope for this marriage to work. I have to realize we gave ourselves 3 months for a reason.

          • Samantha Baker October 26, 2012 at 9:24 am #

            Very very insightful actually. Mr. Baker is going through a similar thing. Guilt and shame are very difficult for him right now. It’s something that they never had to deal with before and they don’t know HOW. They never HAD to. And we are pushing them to reach those emotions in effort to save our marriages. It’s not a bad thing. Really.

            So actually if you think of it in terms of that??? Last night may have gone better than you thought.

            • beautifulmess7 October 26, 2012 at 9:28 am #

              Very true. See, it’s all about perspective! 🙂

  12. huperecho: to rise above October 26, 2012 at 12:00 am #

    More and more I am figuring out that if I don’t draw a diagram and tell him exactly how to act with me, he doesn’t act at all out of fear that it’s going to upset or hurt me. He’s afraid to touch me because of what I said in my hysterics the first four days after FD-Day.
    As I look back I am so thankful to have left him immediately to go stay with friends and family so I could think straight. It was hard because he didn’t know if I was coming back to him or if I was going to leave him. He did some stupid things while I was gone due to his own pain. I wanted him to fight for me but he was walking on eggshells instead. I wanted him to reassure me that things were going to change but he in his fear of losing me didn’t want to make demands. I wanted him to tell me why he loved me but he didn’t get it and gave me the simple answers. It was crazy. The time away did us a lot of good though. And when I came home he still had to stay on the couch for three weeks. Don’t lose hope but it might help to draw him a diagram too 🙂 It feels so awkward and really can we really say it’s dating cause if you think about it dating was NOTHING like this. They weren’t afraid of us then and they didn’t have to make up for past mistakes.

    • beautifulmess7 October 26, 2012 at 12:09 am #

      I know. You are absolutely right. I said I’m probably expecting too much from him. I want a lot of things from him, but I don’t even know if he is realistically capable of providing them.

      I use the term “date” loosely and always with quotes because I know it’s not quite dating but I don’t know what else to call it. That is our time to catch up and connect with one another, enjoy each other’s company, and discuss recovery and our marriage reconciliation… It’s not all serious (that is mostly saved for MC). Instead its about staying as close as possible while we are living apart. But what do you call that?

      • huperecho: to rise above October 26, 2012 at 1:20 am #

        I really don’t know. I was all the way on the other side of the states when I left. We emailed a little. he was keeping me posted on what he was doing. Texted for important things and he called me twice. When I came home it was so awkward. The first time we went out we either went to the beach and took our dog and hung out on the pet side or we went to movies. I can’t remember what came first. Trying to talk was hard so the dog and the movies were a distraction and helped us just learn how to be in each others company again and we would stop and have a quick bite to eat either before or after. it wasn’t til after a few times at the movies that my daughter asked in a text ” did you hold hands on your date?” Dating didn’t even cross my mind lol. All I knew is we were trying to reconnect. I feel like i have to teach him how to be with me again. We’ve been doung this icebreaker thing for couples. we get an email every day and it asks a question like “what was the happiest time in your life?” Its a great tool for conversation and reconnecting. we found it on our iphones and it is kind of fun to do. It wasn’t supposed to be like this huh? 😦 I am still rooting for you guys!!!!

        • beautifulmess7 October 26, 2012 at 8:37 am #

          I don’t even think he’s in a place right now where he could do those icebreaker things. Maybe we’ll get there…

  13. our24yeargap October 25, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    I do hope things get better for you. Sounds like a horrible “first date”, maybe the 3rd times the charm? : )

    • beautifulmess7 October 25, 2012 at 11:19 pm #

      I don’t want it to seem like I’m bashing him. It wasn’t horrible, but it definitely wasn’t what I was hoping for. Once again I let my expectations cloud what I know to be reality. He is in a funk. He isn’t very proactive. He doesn’t know what to do. So of course he does this paralyzed, awkward attempt at a date. I don’t know what he was expecting…

      On the bright side, at least he shaved. I did notice that. He very rarely shaved when we lived together, which was a constant annoyance to me. Or he would half-ass the shaving and forget spots. Tonight he was very thoroughly shaved, which I appreciated. I don’t know if he was wearing my favorite cologne because he didn’t get close enough for me to smell.

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